Spiritual Discernment (SD) is the ability to understand and apply Scripture with the purpose of separating truth from falsehood. The church is called upon to discern truth from falsehood (1 John 4:1-3; 1 Thess 5:19-22).
Readers of this blog know that I’ve done several posts on Todd Bentley. At first I really didn’t want to go there, but I’m sure glad I did, because these posts and the comments have given me a chance to gauge the SD in the body of Christ.
From the several posts on Todd Bentley, the comments have been mixed, some in support of Todd Bentley’s ministry and some against.
So whether you have posted in support or against Todd Bentley’s healing ministry, this is a matter of SD, and it seems like we have failed, because we cannot agree on the true nature of Todd Bentley’s healing ministry.
I would like to think not, but the fact that this has been on TV for over 100 days makes me wonder. There have been over 400,000 people attend this. Sometimes when I watch what is going on I think it is really a lack of hope/faith in Jesus Christ. I have struggled with severe back pain for over 5 years and have often thanked God for this trial in my life for he has sanctified me through it. If I were to believe TB, this is a demon/unrepentant sin or I just need to see the right person to heal me.
A new condition is born:
Discernment Dysfunction or DD
Yes. It seems to me that most people, at least most of those who comment on these matters on blogs, don’t have a clue about SD. They understand it as an intellectual exercise, comparing something against proof texts mostly ripped out of context. In fact biblical SD is a gift of the Holy Spirit, 1 Corinthians 12:10. It is only by listening to the prompting of the Holy Spirit that one can hope to take discernment beyond the very basic principle given in verse 3 of the same chapter.
Mike, If you don’t mind, but What is your conclusion on what you’ve seen, heard and read so far.
Stan, elaborate if you don’t mind.
Peter, Are you implying that if we don’t have the gift of discernment of 1 Cor 12:10 that we would not really understand the true nature of Todd Bentley’s ministry?
It appears to me that the church is suffering from a lack of healthy discernment; I decided to label it DD.
I have recently spent some time at another website which shall remain nameless for the moment. Professing Christians were falling for every imaginable false teaching, some heretical. Sad. Real sad.
I got you. thanks for the clarification.
TC, I would certainly suggest that those who do not have the gift of discernment should not presume to condemn a Christian ministry. Rather they would do well to follow the advice of someone who does have this gift, who is likely to be in pastoral or similar ministry or a confidant of those who are.
Fair enough, but do you know anyone who has the gift of discernment and who has actually examined the nature of Todd Bentley’s ministry and has given a report?
You don’t need the gift of discernment! All you need is a healthy dose of Scripture. Everything that is going on in Lakeland and anywhere Todd Bentley goes is against Scripture. People need to wake up and read their Bibles!
To the angel of the Lakeland Outpouring write…
These things say He who…(a revelation of who God is)
I know your works…
I Council you, or I have this against you…
Repent
He who overcomes…(a promise)
He who has an ear let him hear what the Spirit says to the Churches.
Many are failing at SD because we want a one sided simplistic conclusion. Is this of God or is it not? In my opinion things are usually mixed. Todd Bentley and the whole Lakeland Outpouring has much that God is blessing. Their works are evident (worship, salvation, healing, teaching, and they seem to have first love and bold faith. Much has been said against them; new age mixture, false prophetic, demonic, violence, doctrinal error, lies, not everyone is healed, and on and on. Some of this God would agree with and council repentance. Shouldn’t our prayer for Todd and this outpouring be that they would overcome, obtain promises and truly hear what the Spirit is saying to the them.
May we all take Revelation 2 and 3 to heart and SD not only them but our own first love, works, and hot, cold or lukewarmness. Could it be that some of the most critical have a name that they are alive, but are dead?
The Gathering,
Do you mean to say that no good thing can be seen in Lakeland? Are you saying that God is not there at all?
Duane, What then are you against at the Lakeland Outpouring?
Linking giving to the anointing, hype, self-promotion, presumption, and making claims without evidence, to name a few.
But, Philippians 1:18 …whither in pretense or in truth, Christ is preached; and in this I rejoice…
But some would say that merely mentioning the name of Christ is not the same as preaching Christ.
How do you understanding preaching Christ? When does someone actually preach Christ?
In this context I think Acts 3 is a good example. Peter and John brought the power of Christ to a lame man. It created a stir. They deflect attention from themselves and declared Jesus’ life, death, and resurrection. In verse 19 “Repent therefore and be converted that your sins may be blotted out…
Also 1 Corinthians 2:4-5 “…not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, that your faith should not be in the wisdom on men but in the power of God.”
Is this gospel being preached by Todd Bentley? Is he pointing people to Jesus alone for salvation?
I don’t know what else he may be doing, but Todd Bentley is preaching a lot of Todd Bentley.
This is from his website’s statement of faith. He does point people to Jesus alone for salvation.
http://freshfire.ca/index.php?Id=106&pid=8
HUMANITY’s FALLEN NATURE AND NEED OF THE SAVIOUR
We believe the human race was originally created by God, in His image, to have dominion over His creation (Gen 1:27 ). However, with The Fall of humanity, sin entered through disobedience and rebellion. Humanity became separated from God and totally incapable of saving itself (Rom 5:12 ). All of mankind needs to turn from sin and trust personally in the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ, to receive redemption. (Rom 3:23 )
SALVATION ONLY THROUGH FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST
We believe the power of sin and death was broken when Jesus bore our sin at the Cross and rose again, providing the only way of salvation for the whole person: spirit, soul and body. (Heb 4:12 ; 1Thess 5:23 )
Mankind can only be saved by grace through repentance and faith in Christ’s perfect and sufficient work of the Cross. We receive remission of sins by Christ’s substitutionary sacrifice for us, redemption through faith in His shed blood and regeneration by the Holy Spirit’s power. (John 3:5)
I’m not sure of the significance of a statement of faith in and of itself.
Remember, the demons believe there is one God.
Duane, there’s one thing to state it and preach it. Does he actually preach Christ alone for salvation?
Good point, Stan.
If Todd Bentley does actually preach Christ alone for salvation, we should rejoice in that according to Philippians 1:15-18:
It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. The latter do so out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains. But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice. Yes, and I will continue to rejoice.
At the same time, other aspects of Todd Bentley’s actions should be tested.
I would recommend going to God.tv, the God on demand section and going to July 4th. Once there you can skip through until the start of the baptism. A couple thousand were baptized that day. I only watched about 15 minutes of it. Why not watch that for yourselves and let me know your conclusions.
I’ve got to make dinner for my kids. I’ll check back later this evening.
TC,
My conclusions on Todd Bentley is tough although I have watch a good bit over the past 100 days on God TV. (My wife would say too much). I think the hardest thing to discern is his sincerity so I don’t think I will try. I will give him the benefit of the doubt. It is also difficult because we come from different paradigms. I am a Sola Scripture kind of guy.
I think Todd lacks wisdom. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom and I don’t see this in his teaching. Todd is a relatively young Christian with no real training and yes it does take some training whether formal or not with a heavy dose of the HS for spiritual discernment. I also see Todd always teaches signs, miracles and wonders, but does not teach the Gospel of Christ. Todd also possess a good bit of spiritual pride that is horrible to see in one who is supposed to be preaching the Gospel. (I witnessed this weekend him kneeing someone again in the stomach and then turning to the camera and saying ‘there’s one for Youtube’) The one person with a definite physical deformity that I saw was a young girl with scoliosis whose legs where so fragile her mother carried her to the stage and this was the only person while I watched that was not ‘instantly’ healed.
I am more saddened than anything to see so many people mislead and the missed opportunity to really preach Christ and him crucified. Because TB doesn’t teach about sin in peoples lives why would these people think they need Christ.
As you can see, I have many thoughts and I am sure a garbled them. Feel free to ask for clarity.
Mike
TC,
I don’t know if God is there or not. God may be sending this delusion or not sending it, but allowing it to happen. I believe that people are truly seeking God and seeking healings and miracles. But when we are looking for that God experience or healing or miracle experience, we open ourselves up to other things, demonic things can slip in if we are not careful. Almost everything I have seen of Todd Bentley and Lakeland goes against Scripture. You can lightly brush your talking and revivals with enough Jesus for people to believe you are in Jesus. Remeber what James said, “Even the demons believe in God, and shudder.” I do not believe that Todd Bentley is a man of God. Not because of his past, his tattoos, his style of clothing, etc. But simply because everything he does is against Scripture. He recently said, “If God is not moving, I have the gift, and I move God.” WHAT!? YOU move God?! This is absurd! Bentley, Creflo Dollar, and a whole mess of these prosperity pastors, healers, and miracle workers live by this “name it and claim it” gospel. And if you don’t get rich, get healed, and see miracles than you don’t have enough faith. THIS IS WRONG AND NOT FROM JESUS CHRIST! Jesus never said you should be rich, or that all should be healed. In fact, Jesus calls us into a life of suffering, some will be healed yes, but not all. I believe God heals, works miracles, and blesses some with riches, but not all are called to that. Some of us are going through suffering, hardship, being broken by our Creator to bring us closer to Him. To glorify Him, and Him alone! Maybe something good will come out of Lakeland, maybe people will look to Scripture for discernment, look to Jesus for healing (not Todd Bentley). And if they get healed by God, great, if they don’t hopefully they will draw closer to God knowing that He is in control and that is His plan, for them to endure with Him by their side.
The Gathering said it better than I. One other thing I forgot to mention is a great book called ‘Revival and Revivalism’ by Iain Murray which contrast the moving of God’s spirit in revival and stirring up people’s emotions which he attributes a good bit to Charles Finney.
Mike,
I was wondering the same about his theological training. What if he had received more? But going to seminary is not guarantee of how a person’s ministry is going to turn out. A this point we must bath ourselves in prayer for Todd and his followers.
We may differ about the true nature of what is happening at Lakeland, but I still maintain that God could be at work there.
The Gathering,
In time we’ll know the true nature of Todd Bentley’s ministry. Yes, the prosperity Gospel is unbiblical and it vexes my soul.
If Bentley has gotten his cue from the likes of Creflo, then something is totally amiss here. Get this: the more and more I listen to clips of Bentley in action, it’s the more and more I’m wondering about the true nature of what is happening at Lakeland.
As God’s people, our SD is truly being tested.
The Gathering said it better than I. One other thing I forgot to mention is a great book called ‘Revival and Revivalism’ by Iain Murray which contrast the moving of God’s spirit in revival and stirring up people’s emotions which he attributes a good bit to Charles Finney.
Finney’s approach to evangelism was highly pragmatic and his theology was certainly distorted. His spirit still lives on in much of what we see on TV.
TC,
Having better theological training would just be a start, and you are correct that it does not predict where his ministry would be. Another problem is this is a para-church ministry. He has no accountability to the local or larger church. No church discipline to fear. I pray for those who come to this ‘revival’ most times I watch.
Mike
TC,
I don’t need time to know. It is unBiblical, plain and simple. Just like Creflo is in saying that Jesus was a rich man, and that he died so we could be rich. Makes me want to put my head through the wall!
Todd Bentley is not saying this like Creflo, but the stuff he is saying is so unBiblical, so time is not needed. Just a Bible, and the ability to READ it! I am near Lakeland, Florida, and have been over there to see one of these morning services they have had. Todd Bentley was not there, but his associates were. The “worship” service was everything that Paul preached against in 1 Corinthians 14:26-40. I went in with an open mind, praying to God to be able to worship Him and hear from Him, but there were so many distractions, it was chaos! When God did speak to me, He gave me that verse on orderly worship.
Mike, I believe Todd Bentley is self-taught, not a good idea. He needs to be grounded in Scripture.
The Gathering, Creflo Dollar is over the top. What he does with Scripture is amazingly offensive, if I can say that.
Yes, I believe we have a scriptural responsibility to examine the claims of Todd Bentley. Anyone who thinks Christians should just stand by and not examine the nature of his ministry is not reading their Bible.
TC, I believe Todd Bentley may take the cake for over the top! The more I pray about it, and the more Todd Bentley does makes me feel as if God is FULLY in this Lakeland Outpouring. I am starting to feel as if God is sending this delusion and that massive judgement may be coming…
The Gathering, because his theology is lacking, he makes statements that cause someone like me to wonder.
You might be right.
The Gathering, if I’m reading your last post correctly you’re saying The more (you) pray about it… the more… (you’re) starting to feel as if God is sending this delusion and that massive judgement may be coming.
How do we test whether your feeling is from God? And even if it is, how do we test whether or not it is a delusion from God?
I had to ask. I’m something of a cynic/skeptic.
Stan,
Good question. To know whether my feeling is from God, you simply cannot test it, since you do not not know me. I have prayed about this for weeks now, and have been to Lakeland recently. I have searched Scripture over and over again on issues of angels, tongues, worship, healings, miracles. I do not want to speak against anyone that is truly of God. I am continually “testing the spirits” and I feel that Todd Bentley is not a true man of God. Whether or not this is a delusion sent from God, Satan working his way into the church, or just a money hungry fake healer I do not know. But based on what God tells us in Scripture, almost everything is being done unBiblically. I know first hand, cause I went to Lakeland for one of their morning services. Bentley was not there but his associates were. It was the most chaotic, unorganized, distracting, and unBiblical worship service I have ever witnessed, and I have seen a lot! It did not glorify Jesus, other than quick mentions of him, there was no sign of a cross anywhere, and no leader on stage had a Bible. I went in praying to God, not wanting to judge, just worship God with other believers. It was tough, but God did speak to me. He reminded me of 1 Corinthians 14:26-40-Orderly Worship. It is brushed with just enough Jesus to look and feel like it is from Him, and of Him, but that is not what I truly felt in that service. I would really like to know if it is mostly believers or unbelivers looking for healing that are flocking to this stuff in Lakeland. I bet you would find that it is unbelivers looking for an experience of a miracle, not truly searching for God. This leaves them open to all sorts of spirits, new age teaching, and demons.
As far as testing the delusion itself, again, this may not be able to be done. Only time will tell…
All,
Over the past couple of days (since Sunday), I have watched on God TV and saw something that amazed me. It made me think that maybe some of the criticism is being taken to heart. Briefly, on more than one night I heard someone preaching (not TB but his associate) something close to the Gospel. At least they were teaching about our sin and the need for Jesus Christ.
Keep praying for all of those who come to the meetings and the leaders that God could strike a straight blow using some very crooked sticks.
Mike
Thanks Mike. God is at work, nonetheless.
Again, practically everything Bentley does goes against Scripture and what we find in Scripture. All of these signs and wonders people are loosing sight of the one thing that matters- JESUS. When the focus goes off of Him to angels, signs & wonders, and hocus pocus with gold dust sprinkled on top, then it’s missed the point totally. I live near Lakeland, and I haven’t seen any of this make any difference in the community like a movement of God or a true revival would. I mean, that many people are flocking to Lakeland to see Bentley, yet I have not heard or seen anything about Bentley or his associates meeting with the Lakeland community to actually do something that makes a difference in the lives of anyone. There are no verified healings, these so called resurrections are a joke, and there is really no conviction leading to repentence sweeping Lakeland. That’s what true revival or a movement of God would do.
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