Serendipitously I found Are Miraculous Gifts For Today? 4 Views on sale, so I went ahead and bought it for $5.58 plus tax. But I had no idea we’d be getting into these discussions about (Damian, Bryan L, Roger Mugs) tongue-speaking and the gifts of the Holy Spirit. But we have, and I’m glad we did.
Now here’s a passage from C. Samuel Storms on the whole issue:
The church has not always been polite to the Holy Spirit. As Alister McGrath has said, “The Holy Spirit has long been the cinderella of the Trinity. The other two sisters may have gone to the theological ball; the Holy Spirit got left behind every time.” The very existence of this book [Are Miraculous Gifts for Today? 4 Views] indicates that a shift has occurred and that the third person of the Trinity is now receiving his proper due. Today a prayerful cry is being heard throughout the church: “Come, Holy Spirit!”
But what might the Holy Spirit do, should he choose to accept this invitation? It is my contention in this chapter that we should pray for his appearance with the expectation that he will minister to God’s people through God’s people by means of the full range of charismata listed in such passages as 1 Corinthians 12:7-10, 28-30.
Dr. Storm then makes a personal confession:
This has not always been my belief. For over fifteen years I taught others that certain gifts of the Spirit, in particular, word of knowledge, healing, miracles, prophecy, discerning of spirits, tongues, and the interpretation of tongues died with the apostles and were interred with their bones. …
He goes on:
My task will be to account for this shift in thinking and to explain why I now embrace all of the aforementioned gifts and encourage their use in the life and ministry of the church. (p. 175)
For those of us who are cessationists might be wondering, Who duped Storms? But for those of us who are continuists, we’d ask, What took Storms so long to see the truth of the full range of the charismata for the life and ministry of the church, TODAY?
For now, I’m somewhere in the middle…
Experience is usually Key – but I might bet that Dr Storms met or knows someone whom he would consider a friend and credible scholar who was able to talk with him on these things and see that not all Pentecostals or Charismatics are babbling idots.
ps, Doug Oss was my preaching professor in Seminary.
but that is just my speculation….
I think Brian is right. Experience is usually the key.
Brian, yes, I’m sure. I consider Fee such.
Bryan L, the whole issue becomes dubious.
What do you mean its dubious?
Bryan L
Bryan L, Do you believe every account of the charismata when someone claims such?
For example, the guy in the Youtube link Peter Kirk provided, hardly qualifies as legit.
TC:
No I don’t believe every account.
I don’t know about the Youtube clip. I don’t know the person so it I don’t feel properly informed to say whether it is legit or not. I’m naturally a skeptic but at the same time religious/spiritual experiences are hard to judge. You never really know what someone else is or isn’t experiencing.
Bryan L
Bryan L, you can check it out in the last comment made by Peter in the Tongues-Confused post. I’m a bit of a skeptic myself.
TC, the comment you mention is no longer my last comment! You probably meant to refer to this one. In what is now my last comment I admit that I can’t be sure about the Youtube video. But I have heard enough people speaking in tongues including cases where their genuineness has been attested by people I trust for their spiritual discernment that I can be sure that some are genuine, and suggest that others like the Youtube video are either genuine or very clever acting.
For another story of a scholarly cessationist who was convinced by experience that the gifts are for today, see Surprised by the Voice of God by Dr Jack Deere, which I discussed on my blog here, and in some other posts linked to there.
TC:
I already saw the Youtube clip. I meant I don’t know what to think of it and whether the tongues were legit.
Bryan L
TC, have you read this?
While experience would often change the mind of a cessationist, like Jack Deere, I also think it’s a LACK of experience that leads someone to be a cessationist in the first place. Any reading I have done of Augustine, etc., have come to conclusions because they did NOT see those gifts. Lack of proof became their proof. Then, mix in some whacky experience with some “faith healer” who more show than substance, and you get a very good cessationist argument.
Dan makes a good point too.
TC, if you read the cessationist summary which Richard links to, you should also read Deere’s refutation of this position.
Peter, thanks for the Deere reference. Yes, Deere is a DTS product. I’ll have to look into that one. As I said, “I’m somewhere in the middle.” But I’m thinking things through. The skeptic in me is quite strong.
Bryan L, I’m the same about the clip, right now.
Richard, I’ll check the link. Btw, what’s your take on 1 Cor 1:7 for the continuist view?
Dan, “Lack of proof became their proof” is good. Maybe that is why I’m so skeptical, myself.
Brian, I agree.
Peter, yeah, I plan to take it all in over the weekend.
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TC, regarding 1 Cor. 1:7, “Now you have every spiritual gift you need as you eagerly wait for the return of our Lord Jesus Christ.”
St. Paul is writing to the Corinthian Christians pointing out that they were not inferior in gifts to any of the churches of the time. So Calvin comments:
I also think the comments of Saint Chrysostom are quite perceptive: